God Emperor of Mastodon (new account)

@michal@sapka.pl

This is my new, future account. While most interaction still happen on the bsd.cafe one, I aim to migrate fully here.

I am posting mostly culture, emacs, bsd and anti-ai based ramblings. I don't curse and I try not bait people into pointless anger rages.

I am a nerd (or dork? I don't know), a software engineer and I started to hate what technology has bacame.

This is a self-hosted, single-user instance running on snac2.

Messages auto deleted every few weeks
Homepagehttps://michal.sapka.pl

341 following, 903 followers

📌 6 ★ 1 ↺

[?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
@michal@sapka.pl

I support guillotines, and I vote.

1 ★ 0 ↺

[?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
@michal@sapka.pl

...

[?]Tim Chase » 🌐
@gumnos@mastodon.bsd.cafe

@michal

Also amused that the Reddit post you linked to has more votes than my original in r/commandline 😆

    ...
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    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
    @michal@sapka.pl

    Incidental fame.

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      [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
      @michal@sapka.pl

      I may replace my phone with a Jelly Star later this year. The size is a much bigger issue than I anticipated.

      ...

      [?]fall3nsun🌄🐧 » 🌐
      @pepdmin@fedi.local.hasel.cloud

      @michal unihertz.com/en-de/products/je That one? Isn't that a tad too small to be comfortable?

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        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
        @michal@sapka.pl

        There's no such thing as "too small to be comfortable". Just ask my wife.

        (I found the iPhone 13 mini to be a bit large at times. iPhone 4 was perfect.)

          ...

          [?]fall3nsun🌄🐧 » 🌐
          @pepdmin@fedi.local.hasel.cloud

          @michal Well on the size of 13 mini or 4 being very nice I can wholeheartedly agree. Those were comfortable sizes. I was thinking back to a Sony Xperia-smartphone I had many years ago that looked quite similar. Was super pocketable and nice to phone with, but everything else was... meh.

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            [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
            @michal@sapka.pl

            This is the trick: I don't want anything else. Call, SMS, run an app when needed. I love how inconvenient my e-ink phone is. It's just too big (and has huge problems with android auto).

              ...

              [?]fall3nsun🌄🐧 » 🌐
              @pepdmin@fedi.local.hasel.cloud

              @michal Well in that regard I really love my Nokia flipphone and would really love to still be able to use my Xperia Pro with slider-keyboard.

                [?]fall3nsun🌄🐧 » 🌐
                @pepdmin@fedi.local.hasel.cloud

                @michal Just on the weekend my chunky Samsungs battery ran out and I had to be reachable - so I tossed the sim-card into my Nokia Flipphone and went out and about. Gosh golly, it was liberating af.

                  [?]Eli the Bearded » 🌐
                  @elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

                  @pepdmin @michal

                  I used a Jelly 2 (~74mm screen diagonal) for months. The only time I had real issues with it was looking at maps. I am using a Jelly Max right now. Size is fine for me. I just replaced the screen (myself, with parts Unihertz sells on their website) last week rather than get a newer phone

                  Diagram of a Jelly Max phone with dimensions. 128.7 mm tall, 62.7 mm wide, 16.3 mm thick.

                  Alt...Diagram of a Jelly Max phone with dimensions. 128.7 mm tall, 62.7 mm wide, 16.3 mm thick.

                    ...
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                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                    @michal@sapka.pl

                    but this is... just a normal smartphone. I don't want such a hellish, soul-sucking device.

                    CC: @pepdmin@fedi.local.hasel.cloud

                      ...

                      [?]Eli the Bearded » 🌐
                      @elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

                      @michal

                      Like I said, the 74mm device was fine, until I needed to look at maps. Absent that, I would have used it longer. The Jelly Max is much bigger, but still a lot smaller than other phones. I got a lot of attention using the tiny Jelly 2, including comparisons to Zoolander. And it was delightfully light in my pocket

                      @pepdmin

                      Ben Stiller as Derek Zoolander, from the 2001 film "Zoolander" holding a flip cellphone about the size of his thumb

                      Alt...Ben Stiller as Derek Zoolander, from the 2001 film "Zoolander" holding a flip cellphone about the size of his thumb

                        [?]slash » 🌐
                        @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                        @michal I wonder how much of that price is driven by RAM costs? I recently bought some servers. Double the RAM doubled the price. So Dell is giving away their servers for free, but charging only for RAM. Weird.

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                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                          @michal@sapka.pl

                          I think they are expensive not for real reasons, but for novelty.

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                            [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                            @michal@sapka.pl

                            ...

                            [?]slash » 🌐
                            @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                            @michal Nice. I've always gone for the vintage look in pens.

                            Plus I love the "inlaid nibs", like the Sheaffer, or "hooded nibs" like the Parker 45.

                            The Parkers were made in a rainbow of colors, and when I was collecting them, they were $2-4 each on eBay. I even managed to get a "flighter" (stainless steel instead of plastic) for a reasonable price.

                              [?]Victoria Maderna » 🌐
                              @vmaderna@mastodon.art

                              Rat racer on a boulangerie run.

                              A collaboration with @fpiatti who built & painted the car (and took these photos!) 💛
                              Tried a bunch of new things in terms of materials for this one! Really happy with how it turned out 😊

                              Rat racer figure riding a model car.

                              Alt...Rat racer figure riding a model car.

                              Rat racer figure riding a model car.

                              Alt...Rat racer figure riding a model car.

                              Rat racer figure riding a model car.

                              Alt...Rat racer figure riding a model car.

                              Rat racer figure riding a model car. Close up of baguettes.

                              Alt...Rat racer figure riding a model car. Close up of baguettes.

                                ...

                                [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                @vmaderna Gorgeous 🤗 A tag might be a necessary statement
                                @moelassus @fpiatti

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                                  [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                  @michal@sapka.pl

                                  Yesterday on sitcoms: Frasier is about cultured people who go to the opera. Seinfeld is about morons who read only the sports section of the newspaper. Yet, it is Seinfeld where we get to actually hear an opera.

                                  [?]6-4-3 Double Play [They/Them/He/Him] » 🌐
                                  @SeanAloysiusOBrien@tenforward.social

                                  laptops are an ergonomic nightmare

                                  which is fine if you need the portability

                                  but I don't

                                  so why should I make a buncha compromises to achieve that portability?

                                  even the "just dock a laptop on a desk" answer is still like, ok but I'd be accepting this monolithic computer chunk with next to no replaceable/upgradable parts

                                  ...

                                  [?]The ol' tealeg 🐡 » 🌐
                                  @tealeg@mastodon.online

                                  @SeanAloysiusOBrien this whole thread is reminding me of a time, when I started working, where laptops were a privilege reserved for the highest ranking staff members.

                                  I had to borrow a pool laptop for a business trip to the USA in my first job. It was like flying with the Crown Jewels.

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                                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                    @michal@sapka.pl

                                    Earlier laptops were fixable and upgradable to a degree. A screw is not that heavy. The sacrifice was on the portability altair, but for the dark gods of profit.

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                                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                    @michal@sapka.pl

                                    ...

                                    [?]slash » 🌐
                                    @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                                    @michal When I visit, it says USD $549. Which seems like a lot for what it is.

                                    And I'm curious about the image. I get Shakespeare, but Asimov? And I have no idea who the other faceless one is supposed to be.

                                    It's probably better/faster/cheaper to get an old Palm III, and use Graffiti instead of this. Fits in a shirt pocket as well.

                                      ...
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                                      [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                      @michal@sapka.pl

                                      Oh, I'm sure it is. There's a growing niche of premium dumb-electronics now. What we had for cheap (and left for a shiny new surveillance device) we can get again, just expensively. Just look at "dumb" phones.

                                        [?]slash » 🌐
                                        @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                                        @michal Just checked eBay (and I know that's not great for Poland), but the unit is $30, and a cradle (for moving things on/off) is $15.

                                        No tracking. No internet. No ads.

                                        (I used mine for calendar and ebooks, mostly. Thinking about starting to use it again.)

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                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🔓
                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                          https://michal.sapka.pl/2026/death-stranding/

                                          My god! He even used a thesaurus!

                                          ...

                                          [?]slash » 🔓
                                          @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                                          @michal Most comments I hear from Europeans visiting the USA is "My god, Americans won't shut up! And they'll talk to you about anything!"

                                          IMO, this is because we're a car culture, with lots of open spaces. We have no worries about getting to know people "too fast", and having to live next door to them forever. One or both will move on before too long. Just my opinion, though.

                                          Just never *trust* us. The "Yankee Trader" has a bad reputation. And we're still earning it. ;)

                                            ...
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                                            [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🔓
                                            @michal@sapka.pl

                                            We have our famous "Polish smile." I'd love it if people talked a bit more with strangers. I, for the love of everything that's holy, can't. We live in our apartment for 15 years now. Only this past weekend I learned the first name of our neighbor.

                                              ...

                                              [?]slash » 🔓
                                              @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                                              @michal Sounds like I'd fit in in Poland. ;)

                                              I've had to fill out paperwork for clearances. And they ask for references of neighbors. That's really hard, since I try to NOT have neighbors, and when I do, I never know who they are. I keep to myself.

                                              The part I'd like to get better at, is when they actually introduce themselves and I almost instantly forget their names. I should do better.

                                              I used to be really good at that. But at some point I just stopped bothering.

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                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                The Good Place - after 8 episodes. Characters are meh, story is meh but there is something underneath which I want to explore. There needs to be a "twist" of sorts, as this cannot be all there is (and in the lectures we see information that contradicts the very basic morality math)

                                                ...

                                                [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                @michal I had the same opinion. I didn't love it but, somehow, I wanted to go ahead

                                                  [?]Nux » 🌐
                                                  @Nux@fosstodon.org

                                                  @michal Almost gave up after the 1st, watched the 2nd for Jameela, but had to stop as it was just a waste of time.

                                                    ...
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                                                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                    @michal@sapka.pl

                                                    I've been told it gets smart....

                                                    cc @rl_dane@polymaths.social

                                                      ...

                                                      [?]R.L. Dane :Debian: :FreeBSD: :OpenBSD: :NetBSD:🍵 :MiraLovesYou: [he/him/my good fellow] » 🌐
                                                      @rl_dane@polymaths.social

                                                      @michal @Nux

                                                      It's still probably my favorite show of all time, and if I could re-watch it again for the first time, I would do it in a heartbeat.

                                                      I think the first two seasons are arguably the best, but the show gets under you skin in a major way, if you let it.

                                                      Oh, and don't worry, there are twists. XD

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                                                        slash boosted

                                                        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                        @michal@sapka.pl

                                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7jLvtmqW1I

                                                        Bernie talking with New Yorker about our new overlords

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                                                        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                        @michal@sapka.pl

                                                        1 ★ 0 ↺

                                                        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                        @michal@sapka.pl

                                                        INb4: American Projection as a protest against Equal Earth Projection

                                                        Each country gets 0.0001% bigger for every $1Bln paid to "Trump's American Greatness Projection Foundation".

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                                                        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                        @michal@sapka.pl

                                                        I love that there are two types of people when it comes to the new Potter series:
                                                        • those who despise it because of Rowing
                                                        • those who despise it because of the lighting of sets

                                                        ...

                                                        [?]slash » 🌐
                                                        @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                                                        @michal I haven't decided whether to watch it or not. I feel that the originals were a lovely bubble of fantasy, and anything more would pop that bubble forever.

                                                        But sequels are not *always* worse. And series are not *always* a cynical attempt to extract money from fans. So...I'll wait and see.

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                                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                                          USA is aiming at "The Bold Army".

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                                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                                          What's the Fediverse's opinion on the late Roger Scruton?

                                                          2 ★ 0 ↺

                                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                                          I'm so glad that my lowest self-image period was long before LLM as "friends". Those things are the saddest thing of 2026.

                                                          [?]wicker boyfriend » 🌐
                                                          @checkervest@laserdisc.party

                                                          Any guesses as to what I meant by this? It’s bad even for me

                                                          Three words, almost illegible. First word is probably “order” but no idea about the other two

                                                          Alt...Three words, almost illegible. First word is probably “order” but no idea about the other two

                                                          ...

                                                          [?]wicker boyfriend » 🌐
                                                          @checkervest@laserdisc.party

                                                          Mulling it over [SENSITIVE CONTENT]

                                                          First word is almost certainly “order,” second word ends in -ding and possibly has an “a” in the middle, last word might end in “ck” I have absolutely no idea what was going on here

                                                          ...

                                                          [?]Eli the Bearded » 🌐
                                                          @elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

                                                          Mulling it over [SENSITIVE CONTENT]

                                                          @checkervest

                                                          Order mulching truck?

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                                                            [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                            @michal@sapka.pl

                                                            If this were my handwriting, I'd be sure it was "our usual kock" but even I am not that bad at spelling naughty words.

                                                              ...

                                                              [?]wicker boyfriend » 🌐
                                                              @checkervest@laserdisc.party

                                                              @michal also this is on my work desk! Naughty post-its have to stay at home

                                                                [?]Dissent Doe :cupofcoffee: [She/Her] » 🌐
                                                                @PogoWasRight@infosec.exchange

                                                                4 ★ 1 ↺
                                                                emaksovalec boosted

                                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                As you all know, the reality of the web has changed. We need to adjust Fediverse and make it AI-first. We have made the dificult decision to do restructuring. As a result some users will be moved to different instances, and some roles will be elimitated.

                                                                If you are reading this toot, your account was not affected.

                                                                Thank you for your continous engagement. Please contact you instance admin if you have additional questions.

                                                                [?]mos_8502 :verified: 🇨🇦 » 🌐
                                                                @mos_8502@studio8502.ca

                                                                Picture if you will, a GUI roughly like Mac OS 9, on a Unix-like kernel, with BeOS's neat filesystem tricks, and a filesystem hierarchy that both doesn't look like line noise [cough]unix[cough] and doesn't treat the user like an idiot.

                                                                ...

                                                                [?]Irenes (many) » 🌐
                                                                @ireneista@adhd.irenes.space

                                                                @mos_8502 tell us more about the filesystem stuff? that's an aspect of BeOS we never learned enough about

                                                                ...

                                                                [?]mos_8502 :verified: 🇨🇦 » 🌐
                                                                @mos_8502@studio8502.ca

                                                                @ireneista In BeOS, the filesystem supports rich metadata on every file through extended attributes, and indexes the metadata for rapid, live-updating queries of that data. So you can have a "virtual directory" called a "live query" that always contains the files that match a specific set of metadata queries, and updates live with the filesystem as it changes.

                                                                  ...

                                                                  [?]Irenes (many) » 🌐
                                                                  @ireneista@adhd.irenes.space

                                                                  @mos_8502 oh! nice!

                                                                  ...

                                                                  [?]mos_8502 :verified: 🇨🇦 » 🌐
                                                                  @mos_8502@studio8502.ca

                                                                  @ireneista BeOS leveraged that concept well; for example, it had "People" files that were empty files with all the contact data in extended attributes, and the email client had the body text in files with all the headers in metadata; you searched your email, music, and contacts with the same file manager.

                                                                    ...

                                                                    [?]benz » 🌐
                                                                    @bentsukun@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                    @mos_8502 @ireneista It blew my mind when I realized that the email folder display was a regular file manager window on BeOS.

                                                                      [?]Karl Baron » 🌐
                                                                      @kalleboo@bitbang.social

                                                                      @mos_8502 @ireneista Didn't Apple hire the BeFS guy and then create Spotlight and APFS, which together can do most of the same stuff?

                                                                      And then no software actually takes advantage of it (most of all the Finder has absolutely no imagination about what a document manager can be, and Files on iOS is even worse)

                                                                        [?]nortti » 🌐
                                                                        @nortti@fedi.nortti.org

                                                                        I must say this sounds an awful lot like Haiku; what's the differentiator?

                                                                          ...

                                                                          [?]mos_8502 :verified: 🇨🇦 » 🌐
                                                                          @mos_8502@studio8502.ca

                                                                          @nortti I am not sure how much like Mac OS 9 Haiku can reasonably be said to be.

                                                                            [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                            @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                            EDIT: I want to make one thing absolutely clear. I am a committed antifascist, because of my personal history, my family history, and my country's history. Nazis and fascists are not welcome here, and they never have been.

                                                                            Being accused of fascism or Nazism, or of defending either of them, hurts me personally. Part of the point of this post was precisely this: if we disagree, let's not immediately start shouting "fascism". Let's talk, look at what was actually said and done, and try to understand the situation. Sometimes there is more to it than it first appears.

                                                                            After 30 years of commitment to open source, openness and collaboration, I honestly don't know how else to make my position clearer. I am deeply saddened by how this whole situation has unfolded.

                                                                            Periodic official communication, just to clarify a few things.

                                                                            The BSD Cafe is an open, inclusive and friendly community. A community of people who try to be *“pro, not against”* and *“supporters, not haters”*: enthusiasts, friends, people who come here to share, to learn, to discuss. Not to hate each other.

                                                                            This does not mean that we all have to think in the same way. Quite the opposite: it means that we can have different opinions, discuss them, defend them strongly, and question each other’s ideas.

                                                                            What it does not mean is that it is acceptable to insult, threaten, attack people, or pretend that there can only be one morally acceptable position on every possible subject.

                                                                            Calling the BSD Cafe a "Nazi Bar" from the outside simply because we do not automatically censor people who have an opinion different from yours is offensive towards the hundreds of people who are part of this community. Unless you're a Nazi or a fascist. In that case, you're not welcome here.

                                                                            People are, of course, free to criticise what happens here. But expecting us to attack, ban or silence someone because you believe they deserve it, and then accusing the whole Cafe because we do not, is something different.

                                                                            And I have seen something even worse lately: actual calls for hate. The equivalent of *“hey, everyone, go and attack this person”*, simply because that person does not share your position.

                                                                            No. This is not acceptable.

                                                                            And, dear friends, declaring yourself anti-Nazi while organising a crowd against somebody, intimidating them and treating them as an enemy who deserves to be attacked means using exactly the kind of methods you claim to oppose.

                                                                            I do not say this lightly. I come from a family, and from a country, with a very real history of fascism and of the antifascism that immediately followed it. These are not just abstract words to me.

                                                                            Hate is not tolerated, at any level, inside or outside the Cafe. The same is true for threats, intimidation and aggression. Believing that our cause is right does not make those behaviours more acceptable.

                                                                            You disagree with someone? Say it. Explain why. Argue against their ideas. Support yours with all the conviction you want. But do not aggressively attack. This is not tolerated.

                                                                            And expecting everyone else to attack that person too, or considering them somehow complicit because they do not, is something different. And it is not what I want for this community.

                                                                            On any subject.

                                                                            Even pineapple on pizza (!!!).

                                                                            The Fediverse is a non-place, but it is made of real people. Wonderful people, very often. Let’s not turn it into version 2.0 of traditional social media, where every discussion becomes a war and anyone who does not think exactly like us automatically becomes the enemy.

                                                                            In the last few weeks I have seen people stepping away exactly because of this. On different subjects, people accused of the worst things not because of something they had done, but because they had not said what someone expected them to say. Some of them, for their own wellbeing, simply decided to take a step back.

                                                                            We all lost something because of that. Nobody gained anything.

                                                                            So let’s keep supporting what we believe in. Let’s do it with conviction, and with firmness when needed. But let’s discuss ideas without turning people into targets.

                                                                            From experience, I have learnt that real change also requires discussion, organisation, patience and concrete actions. We can disagree deeply without stopping considering each other as people.

                                                                            This is the kind of place I want the BSD Cafe to continue to be.

                                                                            journal.bsd.cafe/2026/03/31/im

                                                                            boosted

                                                                            [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                            @stefano@journal.bsd.cafe

                                                                            I’m Just the Barista

                                                                            The spirit of the BSD Cafe is to try to create a serene, open, friendly, positive, and welcoming environment for all who want to be a part of it. I am just the Barista. I can't solve the world's problems, but I can try to keep the counter clean, keep the machines running, serve a good BSD coffee, and ensure that, at least here, friends can find a moment of peace and constructive sharing. We need more bars and fewer shopping malls. [SENSITIVE CONTENT]

                                                                            This is the text I wrote for my part of the talk “Liberating the Social Web Using *BSD“, presented together with the great Jeroen (@h3artbl33d) at EuroBSDCon 2025 in Zagreb. It’s not a transcript – it’s the base I worked from, the thoughts I organized before stepping on stage. What I actually said may have been slightly different in places, as it always is when you speak from the heart rather than read from a page. But these are the words, and the spirit is exactly the same.

                                                                            Today, I’m not just here to talk about technology, but about how the principles of BSD systems can help us build healthier and more resilient online communities. And I’ll do this by telling you the story of the bar I founded, the BSD Cafe.

                                                                            The idea for the BSD Cafe was born long before its launch but, as I often do, I thought carefully about whether to proceed. On 27 December 2022, I decided to register the domain. The name came from careful reflection with my wife. The idea was to create a virtual space that resembled not so much the cafes scattered around the world, but the Italian “Cafe” (which are called “Bar”).

                                                                            For many years (and in many contexts, still today), Italian bars have been at the center of people’s recreational social lives. The Barista, the manager of the establishment, is not just a keeper but a point of reference: they don’t just serve coffee, but they listen and, if asked, offer advice with the wisdom of someone who sees many people and many things, even just out of the corner of their eye, and hears many stories. It used to be said that the best advisors were priests and bartenders, but that the latter certainly gave more entertaining advice.

                                                                            And the bar is precisely the place where people go to relax. There are often televisions, tables for playing cards, and recreational rooms. The bartender ensures that everything runs smoothly, but also that everyone feels comfortable: that the person passing through gets directions to their destination, that the person who just walked in gets their coffee at their preferred temperature, and that the person who entered a little earlier, who needs some rest today, has a table in a more private area.

                                                                            The spirit of the BSD Cafe is the same: to try to create a serene, open, friendly, positive, and welcoming environment for all who want to be a part of it. Those who just want to read can do so. Those who post a lot are welcome. Everyone should have the experience that makes them most comfortable and at ease. No one should ever feel forced to do something they don’t want to do; no one should ever feel uncomfortable. Therefore, everyone can choose a noisy and active table, or a more reserved and quiet one.

                                                                            We can therefore assume that the BSD Cafe has an infinite number of available tables. We can thus call it a Turing cafe. 🙂

                                                                            In Italian bars, people used to go (and in some areas, still do) to find their “bar friends”. These are people you meet at the bar without an appointment. You go to the bar freely, when you have the time and inclination, and you find the people who regularly frequent that place. And the choice of the bar often aligns with the theme of the bar itself. For example, in Italy, there are many “Bar Sports” where people meet to catch up, watch games together, and read and comment on sports news. The idea of the BSD Cafe is the same – a bar where enthusiasts of BSD systems, Open Source, and technology can be found. And for me, although I might occasionally talk about users (out of technical habit), at the BSD Cafe, there are only “bar friends”.

                                                                            The BSD Cafe is a place where we are “for”, not “against”. Supporters, not haters. Bar friends, not opponents. This doesn’t mean that opinions on other software can’t be expressed, even extremely negative ones (I do it myself from time to time), but the general spirit is that of open source: to build, to discuss, to understand. Wars against other solutions, especially if they are open source, are not part of the atmosphere of the BSD Cafe. We have our preferences – we support our ideas and solutions, but we are not here to “destroy” others. Among our users, there are people who develop Linux distributions – and for me, that is extremely positive!

                                                                            When people are at ease and in a serene environment, they are often encouraged to be serene themselves. Some are negative and aggressive because they absorb it from their environment. Some users of the BSD Cafe have told me exactly this: the civil, friendly, relaxed, positive, and constructive level of the BSD Cafe is good for their mental health. Conversely, there are unfortunately people who find pleasure in causing trouble, in muddying the atmosphere. For these people, unfortunately, there is no solution, but the Cafe is not the place for them.

                                                                            Political discussions can be part of our lives and daily routines, but the BSD Cafe is not a political group. In recent years, politics has become a topic not of discussion but of conflict. It has always been so to some extent, but commercial social media platforms have understood that hatred and conflict generate engagement, and engagement means selling advertising – a lot of advertising. Therefore, at the BSD Cafe, you might occasionally hear talk of politics or the political repercussions of technical decisions and choices. And that is perfectly okay. But it is not a place from which political conflicts should arise. We are for – supporters, not haters. We are here to build, not to destroy.

                                                                            The BSD Cafe is therefore a place centered on the BSDs, and all services are, therefore, based on BSD operating systems.

                                                                            All technologies used must be able to run “from my garage”. I am a professional – so this is not a hobby project – but it must not depend on any proprietary solution or “Cloud” solution. Today, there is a tendency to standardize (too much?) everything related to technical choices. If it’s pro, it’s Kubernetes/cloud/serverless/etc. – if it’s not, it’s “old” or “not pro”. I am, and have always been, a proponent of OwnYourData. And this is a mantra at the BSD Cafe. All services are based on Open Source solutions, outside the dynamics and centralized management of the usual companies. We must be free and maintain our technological autonomy; we cannot create a system where our communications and our data depend exclusively on third-party companies. I have enough experience to understand that, sooner or later, even the most solid companies can fail or change their business model. The BSD Cafe is therefore always in favor of self-hosting. Sometimes this means losing users, but not bar friends. It happens, in fact, that at a certain point, friends decide to try the BSDs and start self-hosting their own services. For me, that is a success: one less number in the statistics, but one more success on a technical and ideological level. And for all intents and purposes, they remain bar friends, even if their “handle” is different from “bsd.cafe” – it is the spirit, not an extension, that unites us.

                                                                            From time to time, I have migrated the main VM of the BSD Cafe. Sometimes I have given notice, other times not (the downtime is minimal). In some cases, the system has run from my home desk, from the Mini PC I used as a home server and now use daily as a workstation. At the core of the technical choices, in fact, is the decision not to depend (strictly) on any specific technology or hardware. For this reason, the structure of the BSD Cafe is replicable and malleable, as well as described in its Wiki: it is a community of technology enthusiasts, and I want them to judge the choices transparently and autonomously, without hiding anything.

                                                                            The BSD Cafe was not created to be just a Fediverse instance but, from the beginning, to provide a series of services powered by the BSDs for enthusiasts and friends of the BSDs. To date, the main services are:

                                                                            • A Mastodon instance – the beating heart of the BSD Cafe in the Fediverse, which currently has about 500 total users (now 600 – of which about half have been active in the last 30 days). This is where we chat, get informed, joke, critique, build, discuss, and get to know each other.
                                                                            • A snac instance – also for access to the Fediverse. Snac is an example of lightweight software, with no dependencies, that is stable and easy to self-host. It does not use a database but the file system and is the basis of another project of mine, FediMeteo. The snac/ZFS combination is fantastic. The developer is a caring, helpful, and fantastic person. It is my first choice for personal projects and more – it currently has more or less 30 users.
                                                                            • A Lemmy instance – blendit – which, however, is giving me problems and headaches. I’ve been thinking about it for a while; it might be the first of the BSD Cafe services that I will be forced to retire. More about this later.
                                                                            • A Matrix server – based on Synapse, it has become the hub for many interesting topics both in the thematic channels (BSD-themed) and in the Lounge, the general channel, where we talk about a bit of everything. The server is federated, so it is also an access point for channels and groups on other servers. We chat, we discuss, we ask – a bit like with the Fediverse, but on Matrix.
                                                                            • miniflux and freshrss – RSS is not dead – it is alive and well and still a fundamental tool for updates and consultation. Two jails, two services to give our friends a way to read the news. This is our reading corner, the newspapers, the newsletters. Here, you remain autonomous and in silence, you choose what you want to read, and you savor the content. Without advertising, without interruptions.
                                                                            • wallabag – called “press” – to save your bookmarks, sites, articles. Save the web. Freely. Our post-it notes, but private.
                                                                            • myip – by connecting to myip, you will get your IP back – both v4 and v6 – via telnet, http, https, ssh, etc. – ideally, it is an echo chamber, to “hear” the reflection of your own voice – that is, your own IP.
                                                                            • wiki.bsd.cafe – the project’s homepage and a series of articles and content about the BSDs. It is not very rich in content at the moment, but some friends contribute regularly and keep the information in it updated. It contains articles on how the BSD Cafe is structured (for each service, an explanation of the division into jails, etc.). Our recipe book – for the coffee machine, but also for the BSDs!
                                                                            • brew.bsd.cafe – powered by Forgejo, it has become the home for many projects by friends of the BSD Cafe. I use it daily for my own needs, and it is a way to avoid using centralized tools controlled by the “usual suspects”. And, unlike the main and most famous similar service in the world, it also supports IPv6! It is our creative workshop, the development den. The garage where we have our tools and build, collaborating.
                                                                            • journal.bsd.cafe – the latest, in chronological order, added to the BSD Cafe. Our journal, what we want to tell the world and leave a trace of. It is a WordPress blog, federated in the Fediverse thanks to the ActivityPub plugin, where authors can create and publish articles, even those not strictly related to the BSDs. So far, various articles have been published, and some of them have had some success on sites like Hacker News or Lobste.rs – because quality is still appreciated, especially in the world of standardized and imprecise content from LLMs (or “AI”, as is fashionable today).
                                                                            • There are other active services but not publicly usable, such as “tube” – our TV – Peertube. They are currently experimental.

                                                                            Let’s get into the technical details:

                                                                            The BSD Cafe is not “cloud ready”. The BSD Cafe was not created to be serverless. We love our servers, and we don’t need the “cloud” to run our services.

                                                                            The BSD Cafe started with a FreeBSD VM on Hetzner in Finland for €3.29 per month. It is still active and is the primary for the entire infrastructure and is named “bsdcafevm”. It hosts the reverse proxy, in a jail, which routes all incoming connections, and is the “router” for the larger VM. This VM also hosts a “ns2” jail, which is the secondary DNS, and the “backup” instance of Mastodon, which helps with queue management and becomes primary when I shut down the other one during updates. For IPv6, Hetzner assigns a routed /64 block. I have divided it into /72 subnets so that I can route to other VPSs, services, etc., and provide an IPv6 address to any jail.

                                                                            The main VPS, which hosts the services, called “bc01”, connects to this VM via Wireguard. bc01 has some particular characteristics, including:

                                                                            • It was originally a VM on Proxmox, as I was using hardware I already owned. It is now on bhyve, on a FreeBSD host under my control (in Germany).
                                                                            • It does not have a public IP assigned, but connects to the Internet only via NAT on the host. This is a clear choice: this VM should only connect to bsdcafevm. BSDCafeVM will forward connections from the reverse proxy and will handle “NATing” outgoing IPv4 connections from bc01. The Wireguard rules on BSDCafeVM will also ensure that IPv6 connections reach the jails of this VM. The purpose is simple: this VM must be able to be moved anywhere, and the services must be able to resume functioning immediately. And this happens because all it needs is a Wireguard connection to BSDCafeVM, so there are no services exposed directly. This is the reason why this VM has been moved many times without any changes to IPs, addresses, etc. More information on this VM later.

                                                                            A small VM (for one euro per month) based on FreeBSD that, within a jail, has the ns1 nameserver, which is the primary authoritative one. This VM also serves other purposes from time to time, such as monitoring the rest, etc.

                                                                            A jail within one of my FreeBSD hosts in Poland, on OVH, contains the media files for the Mastodon instance. This is the most voluminous part of the entire hosting setup because Mastodon downloads and reprocesses all the multimedia content it encounters. This is for two main purposes: to clean it, in order to possibly remove malicious content, and to ensure that users of one’s own instance only have contact with their own media repository, not with that of the original instance – both for performance and privacy reasons. This server has spinning disks. Initially, I used Minio, but over time, performance plummeted. A few months ago, I migrated to SeaweedFS, and I am very satisfied with it. The outgoing bandwidth of this machine is not very wide, and I have other services on it. For this reason, I applied a solution that I described in an article on my blog.

                                                                            I have used some VMs or physical hosts (spread across Europe and the USA) to act as a CDN. The BSD Cafe’s DNS will return the IP (both v4 and v6) closest to the caller, among those available, and this host will connect directly to the media server, then caching the content. The problem, in fact, does not arise when a user scrolls through their timeline, but as soon as they publish multimedia content: all known instances will connect to download and reprocess that file, generating a spike. This has little impact if it is a normal post, but it is extremely voluminous if it is content of a considerable size, like an image or a video. In this way, the various CDN nodes will download the content only once and serve it to all instances in their area of competence. These CDN nodes also do other things, can be activated or deactivated based on my needs, and are based on FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD (one of them is on OpenBSD Amsterdam).

                                                                            Another FreeBSD VPS (which I use for other things) contains “status.bsd.cafe“, which is the jail with Uptime Kuma that shows the status of the services or any of my communications about them. I do not receive notifications from this host, but from another monitoring system, so it is only to show the status of the situation.

                                                                            In practice, the BSD Cafe mainly needs the “endpoint” VPS, the VPS with the services, and the jail with the media, which could be condensed into a single system if desired. Everything else is optional and I keep it active as I have resources available on external hardware.

                                                                            Many of the technical choices have been documented in articles on my blog or in the BSD Cafe Wiki.

                                                                            But all of this requires backups. And the BSD Cafe has a clear and defined backup procedure.

                                                                            The main VPSs – namely bsdcafevm and bc01 – are based on FreeBSD and, therefore, ZFS. Both have the same type of backup, defined as follows:

                                                                            • A local snapshot every 5 minutes, kept for two hours. In this way, in case of problems, it is possible to “clean up the coffee drop” before the tablecloth is indelibly stained—as well as one per hour, kept for 24 hours.
                                                                            • An external backup, performed at regular intervals, to an external backup host. The frequency varies from 15 minutes to an hour, depending on the available space and the load, which I modify according to my needs. All datasets of the VMs are copied, including system ones, for a possible quick recovery in case of a disaster.
                                                                            • An external backup to a backup server of mine, one meter away from me. This happens every 24 hours, and I consider it the “extreme disaster recovery” because, in my opinion, the safest data is the data that is physically reachable. The disks of this server (which also contains other backups) are all encrypted with GELI, so in case of theft, they are unusable.

                                                                            Last but not least, the physical FreeBSD host on which bc01 currently rests is also backed up every 15 minutes to another external backup server, so the entire disk image. An additional layer of redundancy, to help me sleep better at night.

                                                                            From a technical standpoint, therefore, I have tried to create a simple but secure infrastructure, with the most granular separation possible (for example: the main Mastodon instance has a jail for Mastodon, one for the Redis for the queues, etc., one for the Redis for the timeline caches (only in RAM, does not write to disk), and one for the database (PostgreSQL).

                                                                            Then there are the common service jails (unbound for DNS resolutions, smtp for sending and receiving emails, etc.).

                                                                            Being the Barista of the BSD Cafe is a privilege and an honor. The success of the project has exceeded my expectations, and this has filled me with joy. The BSD community is fantastic, mature, intelligent, and positive. The friends who approach the BSDs absorb all of this and transmit it to others, creating a virtuous circle. But it’s not always roses. There are problems, from time to time, that need to be solved. And, to quote my previous talk: “The main challenge is often ideological, not technical“.

                                                                            Apart from the problems with blendit – Lemmy – which accumulates all the media it sees in a frenzied way and never deletes it, as well as having created serious update problems – all the software is on average stable and reliable.

                                                                            The most complex part of my role as a barista, in fact, is not technical, but human: moderation. The techniques of scams and disturbances are constantly improving, and it is increasingly difficult to distinguish a new friend of the bar from a troublemaker. But the biggest challenge is maintaining balance.

                                                                            Our philosophy is clear: to be for, not against. Supporters, not haters. This principle is a conscious choice, in stark contrast to the dominant model of commercial social media. These platforms are often designed around an engagement economy, where algorithms optimized to generate conflict and outrage maximize the time spent on the site and, consequently, advertising profits. The BSD Cafe rejects this model. We are not here to capitalize on anger, but to build a refuge from the toxicity of the internet.

                                                                            This approach manifests itself in the way we handle controversial topics. Recently, a technical theme with strong political implications has begun to appear in discussions. My line is not to censor the topic itself. I firmly believe in open discussion. I only intervene when the discussion ceases to be a critical analysis and becomes a personal attack. For some, this is not enough: they would like a total ban on certain topics and the immediate exclusion of those who introduce them. My experience, however, has shown me that a more patient approach is often more constructive. I have seen people support controversial software solutions simply because they did not know their background. Thanks to civil and informative discussions, they have understood the context, thanked the community, and made more informed choices. Banning them instantly would have been unfair and would have denied everyone an opportunity for growth.

                                                                            However, this philosophy of constructive positivity has attracted a specific criticism: that of promoting “Toxic Positivity”. The accusation is that, in our desire to maintain a serene environment, we end up excluding those who are suffering, invalidating their negative experiences because they “clash” with the atmosphere of the bar.

                                                                            This is a criticism that I take very seriously, because it touches the heart of the project. And my answer is that it is a fundamental misunderstanding of our purpose. The goal is not to deny that pain, injustice, and suffering exist in the world. On the contrary: the BSD Cafe exists precisely because the world is often a difficult place.

                                                                            Our purpose is not to pretend that those who suffer should stop suffering, but to offer them a place where, for a while, they may not be defined solely by their suffering. A place where they can be, first and foremost, a technology enthusiast, a FreeBSD expert, a curious OpenBSD user. A friend of the bar. We are always ready to support, console, and help those who need it, but we want to protect that mental space where shared passions unite us and give us relief.

                                                                            Fortunately, this vision is confirmed by the very people we are trying to help. The number of private messages of appreciation I receive from people going through terrible times far exceeds the criticism. They write to me that “the civil, friendly, and constructive level of the BSD Cafe is good for their mental health”, because it allows them to disconnect from daily dramas that would otherwise be unbearable.

                                                                            I am just the Barista. I can’t solve the world’s problems, but I can try to keep the counter clean, keep the machines running, serve a good (BSD) coffee, distribute (many) stickers, and ensure that, at least here, friends can find a moment of peace and constructive sharing. But a bar is nothing without its regulars. And the success of the BSD Cafe is not mine, but that of the BSD Community and the friends who are part of it. The richness of this place is not only the quality of the Coffee (which, being BSD, is very high), but mainly the human richness of the friends who are part of it. And to them, to all of you, I say thank you. From the bottom of my heart.

                                                                            We need more bars and fewer shopping malls, and that is why I recently also founded the illumos Cafe. We want people who sit down, who socialize, or who simply enjoy the atmosphere of an environment that is familiar, friendly, and positive to them. Like this conference and all the BSD Conferences, because the environment is the same. Enough of shiny shop windows; a good hot drink, in the company of friends, can help you live better. “From the people, for the people“.

                                                                            Me, presenting a slide

                                                                            Alt...Me, presenting a slide

                                                                              ...
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                                                                              [?]Benedikt Neuzweig » 🌐
                                                                              @benedikt_lauenburg@norden.social

                                                                              @stefano it seems you are meeting the Paradox of tolerance.

                                                                              en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_

                                                                                ...

                                                                                [?]Simon Dassow » 🔓
                                                                                @simondassow@masto.ai

                                                                                @benedikt_lauenburg @stefano This. Tolerance for intolerance breaks the social contract that it tries to establish. Fascists, narcissists, and other bad actors have to be exposed and expelled for they will corrupt everything otherwise.

                                                                                  ...

                                                                                  [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                  @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                  @simondassow @benedikt_lauenburg we’re saying the same thing, and I’ll clarify it. More about it as soon as I’ll be comfortable enough (on the move now)

                                                                                    [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                    @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                    @simondassow @benedikt_lauenburg Yes, but I think the paradox of tolerance has to be applied consistently.

                                                                                    We cannot tolerate intolerance, regardless of where it comes from, and regardless of whether the people expressing it happen to have an ideology close to our own.

                                                                                    Let me give you a real example that I have just been given permission to share, without identifying details.

                                                                                    A few months ago, after some encouragement from me, someone joined the Fediverse. Not the BSD Cafe, but a more general-purpose instance.

                                                                                    They started posting photos, thoughts and experiences, made quite a few mutual connections, and eventually almost stopped using their X account.

                                                                                    At some point, somebody asked why they had not deleted their X account completely. Their answer was simple: they still had a lot of content there that they wanted to keep, and some contacts who had not moved to the Fediverse yet. They hardly used it anymore, but did not want to delete it.

                                                                                    One morning they woke up and discovered that roughly half of their connections here had disappeared.

                                                                                    Then came private messages calling them a Nazi because they still had an account on X. A couple of messages contained very serious threats, including variations of "you posted photos, I know where you live", with additional details.

                                                                                    Then complete strangers started insulting them.

                                                                                    Someone had apparently posted something along the lines of: "Hey, X is a Nazi. Everyone block them."

                                                                                    That was enough: they tried to explain. It made no difference. Eventually they deleted everything and left, disappointed and bitter about the whole experience.

                                                                                    Who benefited from this?

                                                                                    Given time, this person would probably have brought more people to the Fediverse. They might eventually have deleted their X account too.

                                                                                    Instead, the exact opposite happened.

                                                                                    And this is precisely why I think we have to be careful when invoking the paradox of tolerance.

                                                                                    Being intolerant of people who threaten others, deny their rights, intimidate them or organise harassment is one thing.

                                                                                    Deciding that somebody belongs to a morally unacceptable category, and therefore intimidation, collective punishment or harassment against them becomes justified, is something very different.

                                                                                    Intolerance does not become tolerance just because we believe we are using it against the right people.

                                                                                      ...
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                                                                                      [?]AndiS 🌞🍷🇪🇺 » 🔓
                                                                                      @andi@snac.sonnenmulde.at

                                                                                      Do not disregard the possibility that this might just be a strategy from people who like to see the Fediverse fail. By creating dissent. Usual suspects...

                                                                                      CC: @simondassow@masto.ai @benedikt_lauenburg@norden.social

                                                                                        ...

                                                                                        [?]Philip » 🔓
                                                                                        @pkal@social.sdfeu.org

                                                                                        @andi @simondassow @benedikt_lauenburg Do not disregard the genius of cointelpro working, even if it is not true that anyone is actually infiltrating a group.

                                                                                          [?]Simon Dassow » 🔓
                                                                                          @simondassow@masto.ai

                                                                                          @stefano @benedikt_lauenburg Oh, that's bad. It all needs accountability and reason to work.

                                                                                            [?]Benedikt Neuzweig » 🔓
                                                                                            @benedikt_lauenburg@norden.social

                                                                                            @stefano @simondassow Another phrase that might apply here: "There is no right life in the wrong one." (Horkheimer)

                                                                                            This is not meant to be instructive, but might rather be interpreted as a Zen-like reminder that in complex societies, esp. in those leaning towards totalitarian everyone will inevitably make compromises.

                                                                                              [?]khm [he/him] » 🔓
                                                                                              @khm@hj.9fs.net

                                                                                              Who benefited from this?

                                                                                              The fediverse. The fediverse benefited from this.

                                                                                              It is better off without that person, who is a bad person, and running them off was the correct decision. "They might have brought more people to the Fediverse" is not important at all and certainly does not offset the fact that they are definitely still doing business with and enriching the forces that are destroying Western civilization. Why the fuck would anyone ever make that compromise? Shitheads, that's who.

                                                                                              "Well, democracy has been destroyed by oligarchs, but at least our MAU is up!"

                                                                                              "He disabled Ukrainian internet services mid-war, but I uploaded pictures to his website, so we're still besties"

                                                                                              Deciding that someone belongs to a morally unacceptable category and then chasing them out of your community is fucking awesome and the fact that it works is wonderful. Whether this behavior is ethical or not is rooted in how those categories are defined.

                                                                                              "Chooses to do business with Twitter" is a perfectly valid reason to tell someone to fuck off, or to block them, or to tell your friends to block them. Using Twitter is a decision and people are allowed to despise you for the decisions you make.

                                                                                              For instance, you are choosing to conflate 'holding someone accountable for their choices' with 'violent hate speech' and that's utterly despicable. You do this a lot, like when you tell a story about someone getting blocked and threatened. Those are two separate kinds of behavior. One of them is a crime. The other is completely fine ... but your post lumps them together. Why would you do that? Because your argument only holds up if you can convince readers this person is a helpless victim of some kind of unprovoked aggression, instead of a full-agency grown-ass adult who makes bad choices and suffers opprobrium for them.

                                                                                              Well, I don't buy it.

                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                @khm I've more or less replied here: mastodon.bsd.cafe/@stefano/117

                                                                                                What saddens me most is that I honestly believe our philosophies are much closer than these discussions make them seem, and I hope that over the years I have shown, through both my words and my actions, what kind of community I have always tried to build.

                                                                                                If you feel that defederating is the right decision for you, of course I respect that. One of the great strengths of the Fediverse is precisely that every person can make their own choices.

                                                                                                Personally, though, I can't help feeling a little sad about it. I'm left with a bitter taste, and also with the thought that perhaps I haven't communicated my position as clearly as I should have. If this is the impression I have given, then I probably need to reflect on that too.

                                                                                                [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                @dalias @dcoderlt @khm I think there may be a misunderstanding about what I meant, and perhaps I could have expressed it more clearly.

                                                                                                For years, I have tried to make the BSD Cafe a healthy, constructive and tolerant community. That's something I care deeply about. And precisely because of that, intolerance is not welcome here. Nazis and fascists have never been welcome in the BSD Cafe, and they never will be.

                                                                                                What I was asking for was something different: not to start pile-ons or condemn people in advance, but to judge them by what they actually say and do.

                                                                                                Someone asking a question about a controversial distribution does not automatically make that person a Nazi. Someone being curious about something, discussing it, or even asking an uncomfortable question is not enough for me to assign them such a serious label.

                                                                                                If, on the other hand, that person goes on to advocate Nazi or fascist ideas, promotes hatred or discrimination, threatens people, or behaves in ways that are clearly incompatible with the kind of community we are trying to build, then the situation is very different. And yes, they are out.

                                                                                                This isn't about considering Nazism "just another opinion", and it certainly isn't about making the BSD Cafe a welcoming place for Nazis. Quite the opposite.

                                                                                                It's about trying to build a community where we can be open-minded without being naive, tolerant without tolerating intolerance, and where we judge people on evidence and behaviour rather than starting a shitstorm around them before they've actually done anything.

                                                                                                You're absolutely free to disagree with that approach, of course, and you're free to defederate from the BSD Cafe if you feel our moderation philosophy is incompatible with yours. That's part of the freedom the Fediverse gives all of us.

                                                                                                I only wanted to clarify this because I don't think we're as far apart on the fundamental point as your post might suggest.

                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                    [?]Cara [she/her/hers] » 🔓
                                                                                                    @cararemixed@mastodon.social

                                                                                                    @stefano @khm That bitterness & sadness is worth putting into context. These feelings shouldn't be from holding principles. It should come from watching the people who see the moral rot and decide their best choice is to live consequence free however it conveniences them. The lack of care about other people's humanity causes many of us deep sadness and this is exactly why many of us stand strong. It's also why these discussions matter. People often direct (real) frustration the wrong direction.

                                                                                                      ...

                                                                                                      [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                      @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                      @cararemixed @khm Your words deserve some reflection on my part. Thank you for sharing them.

                                                                                                        [?]deutrino » 🔓
                                                                                                        @deutrino@mstdn.io

                                                                                                        @stefano that person's loudly announced decision to defederate might be best taken with the context that they seem to be running an instance composed almost entirely of sock puppets.

                                                                                                        I mean, maybe I'm wrong. maybe.

                                                                                                          [?]pixx » 🔓
                                                                                                          @pixx@merveilles.town

                                                                                                          @khm @stefano

                                                                                                          I'm torn here. I don't like speaking up on issues like this, but I don't feel comfortable ignoring it, so. Just crossing my fingers to not have people harassing _me_ over this one.

                                                                                                          The objective reality is that the view that twitter is a nazi bar is a minority, and that people on much of the fediverse are effectively self-selected by that belief, with minor exceptions. But it remains a minority.

                                                                                                          Most people using twitter, or facebook, or, hell - Google has contracts with $PICK_YOUR_LEAST_FAVORITE_MILITARY, and most people using chromebooks do not ever even _think_ about that when they choose to use a chromebook.

                                                                                                          And, well.

                                                                                                          > You do this a lot, like when you tell a story about someone getting blocked and threatened. Those are two separate kinds of behavior. One of them is a crime. The other is completely fine ... but your post lumps them together. Why would you do that?

                                                                                                          Both happen in tandem, in response to the same action, as part of an orchestrated response. It's _reasonable_ to lump the two together IMO. Hell, it's practically the _expected result_ when people get called a nazi; _both behaviors_ stem from the exact same rhetoric.

                                                                                                          And having looked at the original post, yeah, dude looks like a wanker, not a nazi.

                                                                                                          I know of several people at a local queer-focused nonprofit who use AI tools _as part of running the nonprofit_. All of them are antifascist, not a single one of them would _agree with labelling the tools as fascist_.

                                                                                                          I've seen a _lot_ of this problem, I think, in which people who fundamentally share the same principles ("nazis bad") but disagree on the _facts on the ground_ ("using twitter makes you a nazi" vs "I use twitter to talk to other antifascists" vs "I use twitter to talk to my friends who use twitter, Elon Musk is the rocket guy right?") gets conflated into a whole Thing and I think it's unreasonable tbh.

                                                                                                          And much of fedi is an echo chamber which reinforces the idea that these are just, The Truth ("twitter is for nazis"), but reality is not that simple (1/3rd of everyone in the US uses twitter. I've considered holding my nose and using it a few times just to stay in touch with people I know who use it. I know you know that I'm not a Nazi.)

                                                                                                          And honestly, for someone to be mass blocked and targeted over the fact that they _have a twitter account_ is _disgusting_ to me, _even without_ the death threats.

                                                                                                          It's not any more reasonable than deciding that Microsoft has worked with the IDF, and therefore everyone who uses Windows needs to be harassed until they change their ways.

                                                                                                          And the fact that this is not the first post like this I've drafted, and that I've deleted all of the other ones out of a genuine fear of harassment, is... kinda the fucking point.

                                                                                                            ...

                                                                                                            [?]pixx » 🔓
                                                                                                            @pixx@merveilles.town

                                                                                                            @khm @stefano

                                                                                                            None of this is intended as whitewashing, or to say that "making evil choices is fine, actually." Coca cola has murdered union activists. Drinking coke is thus not a morally neutral action.

                                                                                                            But to say that there's a negative moral element to it is _not the same_ as saying it's reasonable to harass people over it, or that anyone who drinks coke, or refuses to cut ties with people who do, is Evil.

                                                                                                              [?]khm [he/him] » 🔓
                                                                                                              @khm@hj.9fs.net

                                                                                                              I'm just gonna highlight a couple specific places I strongly disagree:
                                                                                                              The objective reality is that the view that twitter is a nazi bar is a minority,
                                                                                                              Not sure how this is relevant. My opinions don't need to be popular to be right.
                                                                                                              Both happen in tandem, in response to the same action, as part of an orchestrated response.
                                                                                                              No, that's not a fair assessment. Someone says "hey block this asshole," and people block the asshole, that's an orchestrated response. Someone says "hey block this asshole," and people send pictures of their house and "I know where you live," crime is happening and the commission of that crime is not ascribable to the orchestrator here. Someone says "hey block and/or kill this asshole" and THEN I accept that the two are part and parcel.
                                                                                                              1/3rd of everyone in the US uses twitter.
                                                                                                              According to ... twitter. Not buying that, either.

                                                                                                              And finally, most importantly:

                                                                                                              You whatabouted a couple organizations in here, and that's fine in general terms, because you're addressing a broader sort of trend. but I want to be clear about something.

                                                                                                              Twitter, specifically Twitter, is a heavily-censored platform that has been bought and subverted by a person who I believe constitutes an existential threat to democracy, and the platform is currently being used to inflate its parent company's value in order to fast-track introduction to the S&P 500 and nail down "too big to fail" status for its owner.

                                                                                                              I get that the usual "I don't like the stuff people post on Twitter" objection is insufficient reason for this level of vitriol, but I regard this platform as specifically and particularly being used as a weapon of aggression against me, personally, and my civilization, generally. I do not give a shit what minor conveniences it provides to people, and I regard people who work to enrich that platform's owner as personal enemies who are specifically trying to destroy my country. That is the context in which I'm evaluating the decisions of Twitter collaborators.

                                                                                                              Microsoft sucks for a million reasons but I've never had reason to believe that they were trying to destroy my nation. I believe that Google is even more evil than Microsoft but they have not so far attempted to dismantle democracy. So while I accept in general that the thrust of your argument applies to multiple businesses/platforms/technologies/whatever, in particular I do not class Twitter amongst those arguments.

                                                                                                              CC: @stefano@bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                [?]pixx » 🔓
                                                                                                                @pixx@merveilles.town

                                                                                                                @khm @stefano

                                                                                                                > Not sure how this is relevant

                                                                                                                Because the accusation is one of association, not of action. The accusation is that associating with ABC makes you ABC. If I say no, this person isn't ABC, _if they were then I wouldn't associate with them_, and you keep calling me ABC, that just... doesn't make sense to me, intrinsically.

                                                                                                                > Someone says "hey block this asshole," and people send pictures of their house and "I know where you live,"

                                                                                                                But that's not what happened; it's someone said "this person is a NAZI", and a lot of people blocked, and a few people took it seriously and went "Well, the only good nazi is a dead nazi, so let's make death threats and Do Crimes towards this person". Hell, putting aside that it's a crime, would you actually have a problem with someone making death threats to a _literal Nazi_? I wouldn't, _which is why I insist_ on not using the word for anyone who isn't _literally_ a Nazi.

                                                                                                                > the commission of that crime is not ascribable to the orchestrator here

                                                                                                                If somebody goes around throwing accusations that other people are nazis, and someone hears it, acts on it, and murders one of the people they've accused, they sure as hell don't get to act shocked by the result, and I'm not convinced I'd agree that they're _not_ morally responsible for the murder. (legally is a separate question, of course.)

                                                                                                                I agree with your framing! If someone says "block this asshole", they're obviously not responsible for the literal crimes. But when you say "This person is an acceptable target" (which is what the nazi accusation _is_), that's a different question entirely.

                                                                                                                > According to ... twitter. Not buying that, either.

                                                                                                                Very fair. Independent estimates are lower, but still not _low_, and the underlying *point* ("people are using it because of the network effect") remains.

                                                                                                                > You whatabouted a couple organizations in here, and that's fine in general terms, because you're addressing a broader sort of trend. but I want to be clear about something.

                                                                                                                ...I agree with your framing, though I'd have to think more before giving a solid answer on the specifics.

                                                                                                                But especially with

                                                                                                                > I get that the usual "I don't like the stuff people post on Twitter" objection is insufficient reason for this level of vitriol, but I regard this platform as specifically and particularly being used as a weapon of aggression against me, personally, and my civilization, generally

                                                                                                                That's a very fair point, though I'll note that from a moral stance, "It's worse because what they're doing is aimed at _me_ [whereas e.g. facebook is accused of helping suppress democracy in _other_ countries]" is... not my favorite argument.

                                                                                                                But as someone who also lives here, and generally would prefer that this civilization _not_ be dismantled - the distinction between "abstract moral bad" and "personal enemy" is, I think, a fair one.

                                                                                                                  ...

                                                                                                                  [?]pixx » 🔓
                                                                                                                  @pixx@merveilles.town

                                                                                                                  @khm @stefano

                                                                                                                  > If someone says "block this asshole", they're obviously not responsible for the literal crimes. But when you say "This person is an acceptable target" (which is what the nazi accusation _is_), that's a different question entirely.

                                                                                                                  And, more to the point, I think this highlights the _exact_ disagreement I have at a general / meta level: when disagreements are about _facts_, not about _principles_, I can be "on your side", in principle, while thinking you're being a bit of a dick, and that you're alienating people _on your side_ in a way that is not constructive *to your own goals*

                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                    [?]khm [he/him] » 🔓
                                                                                                                    @khm@hj.9fs.net

                                                                                                                    There's no way to know without reading the specific text, which is why I focused on the response documents when I declared intent to defederate. I can't know what some theoretical inciter-of-riots said, but I can assess the bsd.cafe policy response to it, and see that it is Bad. Who knows, maybe I'd have blocked them too! But the OP's conflation of morals and methods here is sufficient for the action I am undertaking.

                                                                                                                    CC: @stefano@bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                      ...

                                                                                                                      [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                                      @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                      @khm @pixx I've just sent a reply to a person, and I'll copy and paste it here as I think it's relevant.

                                                                                                                      I am a committed antifascist. Because of my personal history, my family history, and my country's history.

                                                                                                                      Being accused of fascism or Nazism, or of defending fascism or Nazism, hurts me personally.

                                                                                                                      That was also part of what I meant in my original post: if you disagree with someone, don't immediately start shouting "fascism". Let's talk about it. Sometimes there is something else behind it. And that is also why I linked the other post.

                                                                                                                      I am genuinely sorry about this whole situation, but if I am accused of fascism, me, of all people, after 30 years of commitment to open source, openness, collaboration, and everything that comes with it, I honestly don't know how else to explain myself.

                                                                                                                      I am the first person to feel bitter and saddened by how this situation has unfolded.

                                                                                                                        [?]pixx » 🔓
                                                                                                                        @pixx@merveilles.town

                                                                                                                        @khm @stefano

                                                                                                                        > but I can assess the bsd.cafe policy response to it, and see that it is Bad

                                                                                                                        I don't think I agree, but I've said my peace here and I'm not trying to change your mind.

                                                                                                                          [?]R.L. Dane :Debian: :FreeBSD: :OpenBSD: :NetBSD:🍵 :MiraLovesYou: [he/him/my good fellow] » 🔓
                                                                                                                          @rl_dane@polymaths.social

                                                                                                                          @khm @pixx @stefano

                                                                                                                          > Twitter, specifically Twitter, is a heavily-censored platform that has been bought and subverted by a person who I believe constitutes an existential threat to democracy, and the platform is currently being used to inflate its parent company's value in order to fast-track introduction to the S&P 500 and nail down "too big to fail" status for its owner.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > I get that the usual "I don't like the stuff people post on Twitter" objection is insufficient reason for this level of vitriol, but I regard this platform as specifically and particularly being used as a weapon of aggression against me, personally, and my civilization, generally.  I do not give a shit what minor conveniences it provides to people, and I regard people who work to enrich that platform's owner as personal enemies who are specifically trying to destroy my country.  That is the context in which I'm evaluating the decisions of Twitter collaborators.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Microsoft sucks for a million reasons but I've never had reason to believe that they were trying to destroy my nation.  I believe that Google is even more evil than Microsoft but they have not so far attempted to dismantle democracy.  So while I accept in general that the thrust of your argument applies to multiple businesses/platforms/technologies/whatever, in particular I do not class Twitter amongst those arguments.

                                                                                                                          No intention to provoke more responses on a subject that's honestly a bit out of my wheelhouse, but I must say that this is one of the most cogent arguments for not using Twitter/Meta I've seen yet, so thanks for that.

                                                                                                                            [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                            @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                            @stefano Did I miss something lately? 🤔

                                                                                                                              [?]Dmitry Chestnykh ☮️ » 🌐
                                                                                                                              @dchest@mastodon.social

                                                                                                                              @stefano thank you for staying reasonable!

                                                                                                                                5 ★ 0 ↺

                                                                                                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                That's how emacs.ch died. Hang in there!

                                                                                                                                  ...

                                                                                                                                  [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                  @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                  @michal I know. And I remember how disappointed Louis was.

                                                                                                                                    [?]Andreas (82MHz) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                    @82mhz@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                    @stefano
                                                                                                                                    Stefano, I don't know what prompted this, but thanks for speaking up and making your position clear. I absolutely agree with what you're saying here (and in the responses to this post).

                                                                                                                                    I trust your instinct to be able to distinguish between people who mean well but have their own opiníons on things, even if these opinions are maybe not exactly in line with what seems to be the consensus amongst others on the fediverse, and genuinely bad actors whose goal is to spread hate and promote dangerous ideologies like fascism.

                                                                                                                                    And bringing up this "Nazi bar" analogy in my opinion says more about the person using it than the place they're talking about. I've seen people who pride themselves about stepping up against the "Nazi bar" happily orchestrate hate mobs against people who merely dared to disagree with them on a minor issue...

                                                                                                                                      [?]Javi » 🌐
                                                                                                                                      @jaalsa@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                      @stefano The BSD Café is a wonderful place, and I'd like to thank you for the work you do so we can have it.

                                                                                                                                      Deeply sad to see it has been called things like nazi bar. So unfair and undeserved. I totally see eye to eye with you on how you envision the community.

                                                                                                                                        [?]Tim Chase » 🌐
                                                                                                                                        @gumnos@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                        @stefano adding my voice to the chorus of thanks for keeping it a friendly place!

                                                                                                                                          ...

                                                                                                                                          [?]Harri Varpanen » 🌐
                                                                                                                                          @havarpan@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                          @stefano yeah me too wants to thank you... and let me tell you a story about a friend i used to have... i knew him for almost 15 years... computer and electricity and logical argumenting genius, among other things... lots of natural born testosterone too... slowly he became more and more radicalized (pro putin etc) and turned into an asshole towards everyone... like if a friendly stranger approached him he just rudely replied "i don't want to have anything to do with you, please don't approach me ever again"... and eventually he applied that same attitude towards his friends too... he doesn't have any of his old friends left anymore as far as i know... some people seem to become like that and we just need to start ignoring them and move on although it hurts... anyway, this cafe is very nice... keep up the good work and have a great day :)

                                                                                                                                            [?]Sharp Cheddar Goblin [he/him/his] » 🌐
                                                                                                                                            @sharpcheddargoblin@reclusive.blog

                                                                                                                                            @stefano And this is why I'm defederating from bsd.cafe, like several others. If you can't distinguish intolerance towards fucking fascists, I don't know what to tell you but you aren't anyone I want to associate with, or deal with from your server or projects.

                                                                                                                                            ...

                                                                                                                                            [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                            @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                            @sharpcheddargoblin My point is that fascism is not tolerated and will not be tolerated here. Still, I think we have many more common points than points we disagree. That’s what I’m trying to say.

                                                                                                                                              [?]GlopGlop_PasGlop » 🔓
                                                                                                                                              @Glop_glop_pasGlop@piaille.fr

                                                                                                                                              @stefano

                                                                                                                                              Even pineapple on pizza ... but what about cutting spaghettis before eating them ?
                                                                                                                                              ok it's a bad joke I leave the place

                                                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                                                [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                @Glop_glop_pasGlop I would not cut spaghetti but...hey, your choice!

                                                                                                                                                  [?]p » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                  @p@hj.9fs.net

                                                                                                                                                  my instance is going to block yours, and i'm going to lose contact with your users, this drives a stake through my heart and i wish you could just take this back and do it right

                                                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                                                    [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                    @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                    @p I am a committed antifascist. Because of my personal history, my family history, and my country's history.

                                                                                                                                                    Being accused of fascism or Nazism, or of defending fascism or Nazism, hurts me personally.

                                                                                                                                                    That was also part of what I meant in my original post: if you disagree with someone, don't immediately start shouting "fascism". Let's talk about it. Sometimes there is something else behind it. And that is also why I linked the other post.

                                                                                                                                                    I am genuinely sorry about this whole situation, but if I am accused of fascism, me, of all people, after 30 years of commitment to open source, openness, collaboration, and everything that comes with it, I honestly don't know how else to explain myself.

                                                                                                                                                    I am the first person to feel bitter and saddened by how this situation has unfolded.

                                                                                                                                                      [?]ÜberPrutser 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                      @macmenco@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                      @stefano Just sending you a thank you. I’m not a café member (yet) but I feel sad the world/web has come to the point you have to write this… Please keep up the good work.

                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                        [?]rakoo » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                        @rakoo@blah.rako.space

                                                                                                                                                        @stefano this does not come out of nowhere. What is that specific opinion that is perfectly fine to have on bsd.cafe that prompted this discussion ?

                                                                                                                                                        goose chase meme: "what's the perfectly acceptable opinion ?"

                                                                                                                                                        Alt...goose chase meme: "what's the perfectly acceptable opinion ?"

                                                                                                                                                          ...

                                                                                                                                                          [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                          @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                          @rakoo ask me specific questions and I’ll be more than glad to answer

                                                                                                                                                            ...

                                                                                                                                                            [?]rakoo » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                            @rakoo@blah.rako.space

                                                                                                                                                            @stefano the question is in the toot: what is the specific opinion that someone on bsd.cafe had, that others disagree with to the point of calling bsd.cafe a nazibar, and that you find acceptable to host ?

                                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                                              [?]sluttier lee edelman » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                              @lw@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                              @rakoo @stefano i would like to know this as well.

                                                                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                                                                [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                @lw @rakoo Thank you for the question. Bringing up concrete examples will likely give me the opportunity to clarify things better. I'll take two specific examples, one from a while ago and one from recent days.

                                                                                                                                                                A user asked for information about Xlibre, stating they would install it because they didn't want to switch to Wayland. I allowed the exchange (which was civil and polite) to progress naturally until the person received several insights regarding the development team's political views. The user took note, understood, and opted for other solutions since they weren't fully aware of the situation and, upon learning this, didn't share Xlibre's team vision. In my view, this was a community success: members informing another member about something they didn't know, reasoning together, and finding an ethically valid solution - meaning that, as they didn't share that vision, they opted to change their OS and X platform. The person was grateful.
                                                                                                                                                                The mere fact that Xlibre was brought up sparked a lot of controversy about my lack of moderation, how I hadn't nipped the discussion in the bud, and references to the "nazi bar" because people were discussing "nazi projects" - even though the outcome was a clear and conscious realization.

                                                                                                                                                                In recent days, I praised NetBSD for various reasons, and I was asked what NetBSD's stance on AI was. I replied - matching their official stance - that they consider AI-generated code to be tainted and therefore do not accept it. A few people, including a couple of prominent figures, started asking me privately if I would now exclude FreeBSD from the community and from my setups because it doesn't entirely reject AI by policy. I replied that I am observing the situation with keen interest, but for the moment, things remain as they are. I prefer not to go into detail, but it wasn't pleasant.

                                                                                                                                                                There is also another story from recent days, which I mentioned in another comment on this post, but it isn't directly tied to BSD Cafe.
                                                                                                                                                                The goal of BSD Cafe is to foster a serene environment where we can share the passions we have in common. Intolerant people are shown the door and are not welcome. Blocking and defederating at the first sign of dangerous behavior is right and healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                However, turning aggressive simply because a sensitive topic comes up is, in my opinion, wrong, just like in the first example I mentioned here.

                                                                                                                                                                My goal with my post was simply to try and calm things down a bit, encouraging people to be active in tangibly supporting their views. Evidently, it turned into something else, and I'm sorry about that.

                                                                                                                                                                  ...

                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Dragon of BSDCafe :freebsd: [he/him] » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                  @evgandr@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                  @stefano @lw @rakoo

                                                                                                                                                                  > A user asked for information about Xlibre, stating they would install it because they didn't want to switch to Wayland. I allowed the exchange (which was civil and polite)

                                                                                                                                                                  Ahahah, I participated in this conversation and posted a link to my small note about how to install XLibre to FreeBSD :drgn_blush_giggle:

                                                                                                                                                                  I thought that someone may feel a butthurt, since there are dissidents, who didn't follow something looking like the USSR's Party's general line, still exists. And fediblock not so successfull in pursuing these "dissidents" as KGB. But I definitely didn't expected such outcome…

                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Dragon of BSDCafe :freebsd: [he/him] » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                    @evgandr@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                    @stefano Thanks for your common sense and weighted position!

                                                                                                                                                                    As a great-grandson of soldier, who fought a real Nazis during WWII, I think my ancestor is rotating in his grave as fast as possible, looking to the modern clowning, when the words "nazi" and a "faschist" became a common slurs and completely lost its initial meanings.

                                                                                                                                                                    The level of cringe, which I feel when I hear about "faschist software" and accusations in "faschism" is so big, that I started to completely ignore such accusations — looks like nowadays it is possible to become a "faschist" for common things (e.g. I suppose it is easy to find some opinions, asserting that only "faschists" write programs in C, etc :drgn_blush_giggle: ), which are recognized by some small but loud group of radicals as "bad" and they are able to gather an angry mob to make some attacks. Or have some power, so the "doorman syndrome" (синдром вахтёра) (it is a Russian idiom: when the someone without a power, got some power and then exploiting it just to feel the power over people) is manifesting. So, I considered that it is better to form my own opinion about some subject, remembering that I'm not from USA/Western Europe and I'm not a radical in any way :drgn_blush_giggle:

                                                                                                                                                                    Anyway, an impossibility to discuss the opinions, not to silence the opponent by loudly shouting the words with lost meaning (like "nazi") is a lost art nowadays — as I think. As a guy, living in the most sanctioned country in the world, I see this in the lot of levels — from conversations in the Fediverse, to international diplomacy. I thought that the next one iteration of "left-wing<=>right-wing parties" cycle around the globe will teach people that discussions and centered/weighted decisions are better then radicalization and de-humanisation of the opponents. But looks like learning is also a lost art nowdays :drgn_sigh:

                                                                                                                                                                    As I heard from one political analyst from my country (it is not her own words, just quote): "the old world is dying, the new world is struggling to born, and nowadays is the time for monsters" (translated from Russian, so it is not an exact quote).

                                                                                                                                                                      [?]as400 :freebsd_logo: :openbsd: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                      @as400@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                      @stefano

                                                                                                                                                                      You created a very fine place. You should be proud instead of explaining yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                      Both of my grandfathers fought in WWII. My country was almost completely swept off this planet. So yes, I do understand what fascism was.

                                                                                                                                                                      Honestly when I hear all these shitstorms about "fascism" - it makes me angry.

                                                                                                                                                                      Being a person that respects your work I will not write more. Even though many more words come to my mind.

                                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                        @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                        @as400 thank you. I'll explain as much as I can to all the people that ask or seem not to understand what I really mean. That's all I can do.

                                                                                                                                                                          [?]deutrino » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                          @deutrino@mstdn.io

                                                                                                                                                                          @stefano hopefully for fedi's sake, median server population will continue to decrease by the addition of many more smaller nodes, and the english-language Canceldon Imperial Core will continue losing relevance as it has been doing, too slowly, for a while now.

                                                                                                                                                                            [?]release_candidate » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                            @release_candidate@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                            @stefano it looks like a really good time to install xlibre on omarchy, and then publish an AI blog post about it.

                                                                                                                                                                            Poeple who don't like it is going to ignore me and keep with thir life, right? /s

                                                                                                                                                                            I'd know nothing about those two projects without the "2 minutes of fedi-hate".

                                                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                              @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                              @release_candidate Is it possible to install Xlibre on Omarchy? Please paste your prompt /s @stefano

                                                                                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                @ricardo @release_candidate no trolling, guys, please. We've had enough problems in the last days... 😉

                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Brendan » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                  @brendan@social.brendans-bits.com

                                                                                                                                                                                  @stefano

                                                                                                                                                                                  Good grief! What a blow up in response to your very considered and reasonable post.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you for offering a bastion of civility and decency. Even though I'm not on the bsd.cafe instance, I still appreciate the work you and the community put in.

                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                    @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                    Pure joy

                                                                                                                                                                                    I am holding four pizza boxes

                                                                                                                                                                                    Alt...I am holding four pizza boxes

                                                                                                                                                                                    ...
                                                                                                                                                                                    Older...

                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Julian Del Vecchio :verified: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                    @redflegias@social.umoja.it

                                                                                                                                                                                    @stefano 4 sono meglio di 1 😜

                                                                                                                                                                                      ...

                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                      @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                      @redflegias “two gust is megl che one”, come recitava un famoso spot d’epoca

                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]maxfx » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                        @martin@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                        @stefano are you hungry ?

                                                                                                                                                                                          1 ★ 0 ↺

                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                          They sell clothes in pizza boxes now? Cool!

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                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Stefano Marinelli » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                            @stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                            @michal 😆 after all, it's Italy 😆

                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]stfn » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                              @stfn@mastodon.com.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ja pierdole, do restauracji weszło czworo emerytów, najpierw byli gburowaci do obsługi, potem sobie głośno opowiadali żarty o "batyrze", a teraz puszczają rzeczy z komórek, też głośno. Radykalni kodziarze on tour 🙄

                                                                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Bart ◎ » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                              @brayozz@mastodon.com.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                              @stfn psychopatyczna sekta

                                                                                                                                                                                                1 ★ 0 ↺

                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                Jak można wyjmować telefon w towarzystwie?! Nigdy nie zrozumiem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  3 ★ 0 ↺

                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                  United States of the Area South of Canada

                                                                                                                                                                                                  (USOTASOC simply rolls of the tongue)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]release_candidate » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                  @release_candidate@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal america is the continent.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  the country between méxico and canada is called: Gringoland.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Wouter » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                    @jefklak@dosgame.club

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm new in the world since this year and thought it was a good idea to submit a talk at EmacsConf to push myself to learn more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    It got accepted. Now I have to do the whole fake it till you make it thing?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    emacsconf.org/2026/talks/local/
                                                                                                                                                                                                    See you there!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      ...
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                      @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Already can't wait!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Spoiler: How do you bake bread in Emacs?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Wouter » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                        @jefklak@dosgame.club

                                                                                                                                                                                                        @michal Oh shoot. That's a plugin for next year!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "M-x rye-bread"

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                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Wouter » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                            @jefklak@dosgame.club

                                                                                                                                                                                                            @michal C-b C-b ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]George Jones :emacs: :orgmode: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                              @eludom@fosstodon.org

                                                                                                                                                                                                              @jefklak Congrats. Looking forward to whatever it turns out to be. One other thing to maybe think about is things like git-auto-commit-mode

                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Sacha Chua » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                @sacha@social.sachachua.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                @jefklak That sounds really cool! =) I've been using backup-walker and git-timemachine, and I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of interface you've been experimenting with. Also, I've been reading your blog for a while, so I was delighted to see a submission from you for this year's EmacsConf. Welcome!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Michael W Lucas :flan_on_fire: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                @mwl@io.mwl.io

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd love to put some decorative stock art on the blank pages in , but I don't trust my ability to avoid AI images.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]slash » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @mwl Dover Publications has books and ebooks full of public domain images and decorative designs.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    step 1. buy Microsoft Office 95
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    step 2. Use all cliparts

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]Thomas Adam » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @thomasadam@bsd.network

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      See: xteddy.org/music.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Indeed, that URL and the information in it is perhaps twenty years out of date but still relevant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Since almost two years ago, I've sent my dad a C90 cassette and have amassed around 26 of them:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      docs.google.com/document/d/1V-

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have no intention of stopping -- and what fun it is!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]jns » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @jns@mastodon.linkerror.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @thomasadam The google doc is not viewable it seems (permission denied). ;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The list on xteddy works of course. Nice eclectic collection. Is this collection of physical media the only thing you listen to, or do you also listen to downloaded music?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]Thomas Adam » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @thomasadam@bsd.network

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @jns Hmm, The google doc should be word-viewable, I'll double-check.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Everything is what I own on CD or mini-disc, or tape, depending.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do listen to streaming music in the car (due to convenience) but that's about it...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Thomas Adam » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @thomasadam@bsd.network

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @jns My policy with recording C90s is such that if I don't own it, it's not going to make it onto a tape.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            s/tape/tape|minidisc|cd/g

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Thomas Adam » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @thomasadam@bsd.network

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @jns

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For example:

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I need to rip my cds due to dowgrade on my new car - android auto instead of cd ;-(

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Thomas Adam » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @thomasadam@bsd.network

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal Oh, sorry to hear that. I bet you could retrofit a CD player, no?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I could... but then that would be more work than ripping ;p

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've just learned about the existence of Midori MD Codex notebooks. This won't end well...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]Nick » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @Nickiquote@mstdn.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are no Terminator films worth watching after T2.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are no Alien films worth watching after Aliens.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are no Avatar films worth watching.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Older...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]David Cohen » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @davidbcohen@twit.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @Nickiquote It all sank after Titanic

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I love Alien 4. It's the craziest and stupidest one. Nothing comes close to the madness on screen. I have no idea how it was made (eve if I've seen their works. City of Lost Children and Delicatessen were great, Amelie was not). It's a marvel captured on film.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          🗳

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]Szescstopni » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Have you ever ran out of fuel while driving a car?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Never:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Once:29
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A few times:14
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Many times:1
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]zenkat » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @zenkat@sfba.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @Szescstopni I ran out of fuel once. On the Bay Bridge. At rush hour. On a first date.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As you may expect, the rest of the night did not go well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Carolyn » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @CStamp@mastodon.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @Szescstopni I was in a car that ran out of gas with someone else driving. I was 11. Fortunately, it ran out of gas at the top of a really steep hill, and momentum was able to get us to a gas station. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @CStamp I once ran out of gas about two hundred metres from a gas station, to which I was driving. Made it to the pump. Momentum, while sometimes dangerous, can be a life-saver :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Aaron Sawdey, Ph.D. » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @acsawdey@fosstodon.org

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @Szescstopni I have run so low that the car stumbled when making a turn though 😂

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Anthony Sorace » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @a@pdx.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @Szescstopni @Flux I voted “never” but one time I was really pushing it and the car died like 30 seconds before the gas station, but I coasted in so I think technically that means I had *exactly* enough to get where I was going?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @a Technically you ran out of gas but momentum saved you a trip with a jerry can @Flux

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]Milly » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @aanee@mastodon.online

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @Szescstopni Not sure if counts as the car was parked and it was the slightly sloped surface that made the little fuel I had not reach the pump in the tank. The other time while actually driving it turned out to be a faulty fuel pump. So the engine ran out of gas but not the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Though I ran that thing on fumes as a rule so I'm surprised I didn't actually properly run out while driving at any time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @aanee Everything counts :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]Agnieszka R. Turczyńska [she/her] » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @agturcz@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @Szescstopni Does it count as running out of fuel, when you run your fuel tank dry, but you have a full jerry can on board? Happened once for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @agturcz Yes, it counts. Happened to me too. More than once :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Alfred Chow - Maker of Things [He/Him They/Them] » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @Maker_of_Things@cupoftea.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @Szescstopni
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Many times between 18 and 25 years old.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I never had enough spare money to put much fuel in and so kept on running out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I eventually learned to work the other way around, invest in a full tank once, and top up often. But then I got into monitoring fuel consumption and recording it all manually (This is back in the 80s), and the easiest way was to fill the tank each time and compare the amount put in to the miles driven since the last refill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So I always run a full tank now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Battery charge is a different matter. I only charge up full if I know I will need the range for the next day. Otherwise, it is charge enough for the journey out and back.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @Maker_of_Things Right, for me this was usually a matter of money – still sometimes is, and my tank is rarely fu;;.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Joe Vilas » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @jhv@triangletoot.party

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @Szescstopni Having a car with a wonky fuel gauge will do it to you. It makes life more *exciting.* Not. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @jhv My case right now :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]Joe Vilas » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @jhv@triangletoot.party

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @Szescstopni Bleargh. I'm sorry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Szescstopni » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @Szescstopni@circumstances.run

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @jhv Not that bad – sharp curves fix it :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]Anton Piatek » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @sldrant@mastodon.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @Szescstopni @grifferz no, but I've had the clutch completely fail and only just roll into the drive. Mechanic had to tow it to the shop...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Szescstopni boosted

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have used vim since around 2000. I have written five books, a PhD thesis, a few dozen papers and over 150 articles with it. At this point, my higher brain functions are not engaged at all when I use a bunch of common vim commands, they just happen. Documents I wrote with anything else have random :w in the middle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So I tried NeoVim when it was quite new. Vim that you are familiar with, but better? Great!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Persistent undo is one of my favourite features of vim (introduced a few years after I started using it). My .vimrc includes a couple of lines related to this. One sets the path to be under ~/.cache so the undo files do not clutter the rest of the filesystem (I do the same for the swap files). The other sets the undo limit to something large (10,000, I think) because disk space is enormous relative to pretty much anything involving human-readable quantities of plain text.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don’t often need the persistent undo. But on the few occasions when I have needed it, it’s been invaluable: ooops, I deleted something from this file, maybe last week and one reboot ago, what was it? Undo until I find it, copy it, paste it into the current version. Or, a bit more commonly: I had this working, then I tidied it up ready to commit, now it isn’t working, what did I do?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Vim has kept this working across major version upgrades over a period of about 20 years. I don’t even think about it, it’s just part of Raskin’s First Law: A program may not harm a user’s data or, through inaction, allow a user’s data to come to harm. If vim or the computer crash, or if I close a file and come back to it six months later, my undo history is still there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The first thing I noticed in NeoVim was that undo didn’t work. I tried opening the file in vim and undo didn’t work there either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Neovim had changed the format of the undo files. It hadn’t upgraded the old one. It hadn’t used a different name for its undo files. It had just noticed the existence of a vim undo file, deleted it (losing all of the data in it) and replaced it with one that vim couldn’t read.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I raised an issue about this and was told that the persistent undo format was unstable and users should not rely on data being preserved in a feature explicitly called persistent undo. It had changed once and would probably change again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And that ended my experience with NeoVim. The authors showed immediately that they absolutely could not be trusted with any of my data. Breaking persistent undo is something I could forgive as a bug, but the attitude that just because something is a persistent file on your filesystem that contains data that you might want is no reason for their program not to delete it meant they had no concept of a duty of care to their users.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Apparently now they’re platforming white supremacists. I am completely unsurprised. Different facets of the same underlying attitude.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ...
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Davi Ottenheimer » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @flyingpenguin@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @david_chisnall I've used vim since 1992. You lost me at looking for something new.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @flyingpenguin In 1992, Vim was something new!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Davi Ottenheimer » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @flyingpenguin@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @david_chisnall vimproved. not new vi

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @flyingpenguin Of course, new vi was three years old by then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Davi Ottenheimer » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @flyingpenguin@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @david_chisnall neo never actually means new. It means an old, discredited thing MAGAd. neo-Nazi, neofascist, neo-Confederate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @flyingpenguin Aside: it was weirdly hard to find when nvi was first released. The closest I came was that FreeBSD’s man page says they first shipped it in 4.4BSD, but it’s not clear if it was written specifically because of the AT&T lawsuit or shipped in BSD because of that, and how much before the 4.4BSD release it was written.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @fanf , you might know the answer to this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Davi Ottenheimer » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @flyingpenguin@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @david_chisnall @fanf Bostic built it for 4.4BSD, from Steve Kirkendall's elvis 1.8. So that's 1993, according to man page, after vim.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @flyingpenguin @fanf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ooops, read too quickly. 1989 was the release of Net/1, not 4.4BSD.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And so you didn't switch to new vi when it was new, and your original point was correct!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you for allowing me to ruin your joke.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Scott Cain » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @scottcain@genomic.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @flyingpenguin @david_chisnall
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I too have used vim since the early 90s and learned TODAY that it has persistent undo!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @scottcain @flyingpenguin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It gained it sometime in the 6.x series, as I recall. Since I started using vim, it has gained two features that I absolutely depend on: spell checking and persistent undo.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It also has branching undo, but the UI is not great and I don’t really understand how to use it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Sybren A. Stüvel » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @sybren@fosstodon.org

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @david_chisnall thanks. I was thinking of checking out NeoVIM, but now I won't bother.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Su_G » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @Su_G@aus.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @sybren @david_chisnall

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Me neither. Thanks David, you’ve saved us. 👍🙏🏻

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @Su_G @sybren There is also the related AI issue in both projects
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mastodon.bsd.cafe/@ricardo/117
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @david_chisnall

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Apparently, I'm overreacting when I'm told that Neovim has *only* ~70 AI assisted commits so far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    After all vim has ~200 ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Clearly, nothing to see here 🤷‍♂️

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @ricardo @Su_G @sybren

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yup, not happy to see vim accepting slop, but there are a couple of vim forks that are rejecting them. As I said elsewhere in the thread, vim reached feature completeness for me a long time ago (I think 7 had some things I cared about? Not sure. Definitely before 8), so my requirement for a fork is:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Fix bugs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Don't fuck it up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I shall watch to see which one ends up being better at that.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @david_chisnall Aye, I'm keeping an eye on vim-classic atm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @Su_G @sybren

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]MokhtarStork » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @MokhtarStork@zirk.us

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @david_chisnall I looked VIM up today. How do I get to know how to you it? Its interesting..

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @MokhtarStork

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly, I probably wouldn't recommend it for new users. It's a modal editor, which is a bit weird, and it's quite clunky for extensions. I use ALE to make it work with LSP servers but it's a bit bolted on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For me, it has two big advantages:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • It runs basically anywhere, over SSH. So I don't have to learn two different editors for local editing and editing on some weird platform. Want to edit on some weird custom limited-run Arm-extension box running a FreeBSD fork? Vim. Want to edit locally on a mainstream platform? Vim.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • My fingers know how it works.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Without the sunk cost of the latter, the former probably wouldn't be enough to keep me on vim.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Wilfried Klaebe [he/his] » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @wonka@chaos.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That, "it runs everywhere", combined with "it *is* everywhere", was my reason to go for vi, back in the early 200x-es. It was just there on SunOS at uni that I could reach with ssh from the pool room. No other editor was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @david_chisnall @MokhtarStork

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @wonka @MokhtarStork

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yup, at least some kind of vi is everywhere. So even in places where I can't install vim because I'm just doing a tiny bit of quick editing, I don't have to learn something completely new.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Linux distros installing vim as vi and not vim still annoys me though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Nelson » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @nelson@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @david_chisnall I was curious about the “platforming white supremacists” part. I’m assuming you’re referring to this? github.com/neovim/neovim.githu

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Juffo-Wup » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @mndflayr@metalhead.club

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @david_chisnall

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Our persistent data format is unstable. So you should not rely on your persistent data being persistent."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    🤔

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Interesting definition of persistence...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]toufy » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @toufy@beige.party

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @david_chisnall it's just fantastic to know that everything i depend on is now either full of slop or influenced by fascists, or both.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hyprland, keepassxc, rsync, and now neovim.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i'm so fucking tired of this shit, man.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Stuart Marks » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @stuartmarks@mastodon.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @david_chisnall It’s startling how little regard or awareness developers have for things like protocols and file formats given how much it actually impacts users. Apple is surprisingly a major offender here. Multiple times, various syncing services have been broken, and the fix is to update to version x … except that for N reasons various systems CANNOT be updated to version x … 😡

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]robert daniel pickard » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @rdp@notpickard.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @david_chisnall not a vim vs neo thought, but i have done 'emergency' surgery on servers headless (no monitor/console, just a keyboard) and never doubted that vim was doing exactly what i expected as i typed blind. that level of trust/comfort

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that is a pretty rare tool to have in your tool box

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Charlie Stross » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @cstross@wandering.shop

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @rdp @david_chisnall Bram Moolenaar died in August 2023. I can't see him putting up with the ensloppified enshitification in vim itself if he was still alive and in charge. (NeoVim looked nice in 2018-2024, but now it's a Milkshake Duck …)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @cstross @rdp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are a few people in the F/OSS ecosystem whose entire contribution is just pure positive. Bram was one. Hans Petter Selasky was another.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are probably some who are still alive, but I’m not going to name them in case they start posting homages to Elon Musk tomorrow.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I bumped from NeoVim because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a) updates of packages were risky. It seemed no one cared about backward copability
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                b) TJ DeVries irks me

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Phracker » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @Phracker2Art@mstdn.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @david_chisnall
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Same here. I find myself typing :w in Notepad sometimes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Rachael L » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @r343l@freeradical.zone

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @david_chisnall I have for years off and on considered trying neovim and then just always shrug. I try not to specialize my tooling too much really. But are you saying when you installed it and ran it it deleted your EXISTING vim undo files?! I am glad I never tried it! My god.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @r343l Yup, deleted them and overwrote them with something that didn’t work in vim. Didn’t even use a different file extension or try to import the old data.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Rachael L » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @r343l@freeradical.zone

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @david_chisnall Perhaps excusable very early in a project but for something aimed at replacing vim should have come with very clear warnings. :/

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @r343l

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are two things:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • Losing the state in the persistent undo history.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • Arguing in the bug tracker that it’s okay and something they might do again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The first is fine. New project, new contributors, bugs happen. The second tells me that they don’t care about their users’ data.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The second, not the first, was why I don’t trust NeoVim.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyone who has actually shipped something will have had bugs that make users unhappy. Some may have cause them to lose important data. The thing I judge a project on is how they handle such things. If they acknowledge the big and fix it, that’s fine. If they put processes in place to try to avoid that bug class in the future, that’s great. If they defend data-destroying bugs, that’s a warning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Fazal Majid » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @fazalmajid@social.vivaldi.net

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @david_chisnall

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Raskin’s First Law

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: your previous post on overly complex modern devices that don't instill joy, there is much to be learned from Jef Raskin's humane approach as embodied in the Canon Cat. Fortunately his son Aza is pursuing his father's vision and ethos:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aza_Rask

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How are you enjoying our Retro Computer Pricing? Damn, that M6 is as expensive as I remember Apple to be.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]Dave🌱 » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @jibsaramnim@bitbang.social

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @michal it's a great time to rake in those doubloons for Apple right now, they know the folk who are Still Apple fanboying now will pay whatever they charge for the privilege anyway. For everyone else who has to buy Apple hardware due to their lock-in and all, buying second-hand M3 or even M4* based hardware will more than suffice. It'll still get supported by Apple for years to come, performance is "too much for most" already anyway, and everything else is basically identical anyway 😃

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                One thing I dislike about sitcoms is their disregard for continuity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Evidence A: Fraiser. On multiple episodes we see a beautiful Mac classic (128?) in his bedroom. He never uses it. But, the first time we see him in front of a computer, it's a Compaq laptop - the same Roz uses a few scenes before. Why would he use it to write his own obituary? I know why - because the scene should happen in his living room to add the rest of Crane family there, but damn. At least Seinfeld used his desktop!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On the happier side: whenever I remind myself about https://youtu.be/_ZLhKRGDNi8?si=utiGhd4LFdyYoPgm&t=63 I smile. But I'm also sad, because I will not notice such things in the future because no one has time to follow a zillion Netflix shows with 5 years between series.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]jtonline » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @jtonline@mastodon.me.uk

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Has Trump renamed Greenland yet?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Charlie Stross » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @cstross@wandering.shop

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @jtonline It's going to be Trumpland, isn't it.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Trumpgrad incoming?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The Lightning port is miles ahead of USB-C. The usability of that port is a gift we will loose forever - because USB-C sucks balls. Fuck the USB-C design. It's not clicky; it's ugly, it's the worst shape since the last USB.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Older...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]Kool Mo Di [He/him] » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @kmck@mas.to

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal I agree, it’s obviously a more fragile design. Say I, typing on a phone with a busted USB-C port.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @michal Seriously?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      oh yes

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]Ricardo Martín :bsdhead: » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @michal No second thoughts about e-waste, proprietary designs, or slow speeds? 🤔

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Those are two separate things. I'm talking about the shape and user enjoyment, not how they are wired. If they worked on lighting as an open standard and allowed more throughput, it would be much better than what we have now. And what we have is a terrible scratchy thing I cannot use without looking at the port. Lighting just jumps into position.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]Anton Zadorožnyj » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @dartov@hachyderm.io

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @michal in my opinion lighting also sucks balls, I just want more specialized ports (like headphone jacks) and pogo pins. USB-C connector is not perfect, but the fact I can use it to get 100W power, display, bunch of periphery and 2.5 gbit ethernet to a computer - pretty amazing. Old school dock stations were better ergonomically and longevity-wise, but they were not universal, you had to get one for the laptop model.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As much as jack is great, I'm happy that I no longer rock a LPT port

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [?]Anton Zadorožnyj » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @dartov@hachyderm.io

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @michal LPT was better than Lightning ofc, it was just replaced by USB (which is still better than Lightning)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [?]omar » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @omar@mastodon.bsd.cafe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @michal if I may, the correct wording is:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  we loose it because Apple didn't open the patents, didn't want to make it a standard.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  now, i'm fine with usb-c, it's just not built the same according to the brand, which happens also for lightning by the way, be it MFi certified or not.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, they botched it. They had the closest to perfect form factor I've ever used, but then Tim Cook did what Cook does best.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [?]Nux » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @Nux@fosstodon.org

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @michal Never used lightning. What are the strong points? Re USB-C, tbh I am pretty happy with it, 99% of my devices support it and it mostly works. Compared to how it was before EU forced it, it's night and day..

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's perfect. Round, so it easily slips into the port. Soft enough that you don't feel like scratching the device. It has this satisfying soft click when inserted fully.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        USB-C is something fitting in a tank more than regular, everyday usage. Hard edges, annoying feeling whenever you are 1mm away from the port. Industrial.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [?]Eli the Bearded » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @Nux @michal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lightning has a superior plug design that puts more fragile bits in the easily replaced cord instead of the soldered in socket.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That alone is worth a lot

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🔓
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I haven't thought of that, but it makes sense!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CC: @Nux@fosstodon.org

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [?]God Emperor of Mastodon (new account) » 🌐
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @michal@sapka.pl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lord Peter Wimsey on a Google Yotube channel called Forgotten British TV is absolutely charming

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqU34WsJ0no&list=PLcOKn2Ebnf7kBitN2tF7ePHTEcDlNS19O

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